Tribalism In Business And Politics: What Happens When Team Loyalty Comes Before Truth
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The tribalism and loyalty of people to their “teams” is one of the issues plaguing us, stopping rational discourse in business and politics. Many place loyalty before truth and this causes division in America. In this episode, Tom and Bill Stierle discuss how team loyalty is causing damage to Team America. We hear about the testimony of Capitol Police on the events of January 6th, and the unfortunate response of several Fox News anchors. Bill and Tom talk about accountability, identity and why we need to place these aside in favor of the American identity. Tune in for thought-provoking conversation as only Bill and Tom can deliver.
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Tribalism In Business And Politics: What Happens When Team Loyalty Comes Before Truth
Bill, we are getting a lesson right now as a nation in what it is to be loyal and to have your identity tied to a group. A lot of us have our identity wrapped up in a sports team. I keep dropping my jaw at things that we're seeing happening in this country. If you think about it in terms of the loyalty that people have to a sports team, you can start to understand a little better.
This is a difficult day because whether it's in business, politics, family dynamic, any upset that can take place in a business or a product recall, the company doesn't want to talk about a product recall because it's going to affect trust with their brand. “I don't want to talk about this. I want to make this as small as possible. I am going to do and stay in the place of reducing that upset because I need my customers to remain loyal and to continue to purchase my product.” Tom, you're a Red Sox fan.
I am a lifelong Rex Sox fan.
I believe you just went to an Angels game wearing your Red Sox.
Yes, in June or maybe it was early July 2021 when the Red Sox came to Anaheim. I'm there. My whole family is there. We’re ducked out in our Red Sox gear, so was half the stadium.
I hope the readers are noticing how loyalty and identity jumped in. Well done, Tom. That's the thing. I don't think anybody hit you over the head with an Angels’ flag or yelled at you in a way like, “Go home. You've betrayed us. What's wrong with you for being in the stadium? This is our stadium. This is our house. You don't belong here.” Nobody yelled at you like that. Did they, Tom?
No, they didn't. I don't know if friendly is the right word, but there’s the typical razzing of the other side like, “Red Sox suck, Angels suck,” or whatever. We have different cheers that everybody in the crowd is like, “Let's go, Red Sox.” Of course, the Angels have the same cheer for them. There's all that stuff going on. As I'm walking shoulder-to-shoulder into the stadium, out of the stadium, waiting in line to get a beer or something, there is no serious animosity or attacking that I've ever experienced. I've been doing this for many years at Angel Stadium.
No one sprayed you with bear spray or pepper spray or hit you with a stick?
No.
It's a strange narrative that you and I are starting down. The narrative that has to do with identity, loyalty or even self-worth can be rooted through whatever label, identity or sports team that we can fight for. We scream at the top of our lungs when our guy makes the shot or our gal scores the goal. We are in a place of loyalty towards the people of our team.
I think about how much I was raised as a boy to be a Red Sox fan. I was born in the city of Boston literally and raised in New England. I moved to California quite some time ago and I'm not going back. There was a lot of my identity that is lined up with the Red Sox, and there are years when they're horrible. My father-in-law who's a Yankee fan lets me have it. There probably is a line somewhere, but it would take a lot to move me off of being a Red Sox fan.
There might be a lot for you to be disgusted with your father-in-law because he's a Yankee fan. In other words, it doesn't serve you or him because you're married to his daughter. It doesn't serve you to have a vile opinion of him because he's a Yankee fan. Imagine those identities that are done from a sports perspective in reference to Democrats and Republicans.
All of a sudden, things changed very quickly on this show. The identity of something also fits into the identity of America as having two different opinions about the way things work or the better way things work, and who is going to win the message. Here's the weird part about this. The Red Sox are not storming the Major League baseball offices and trying to take down the Commissioner of Baseball or the Vice President, in case the Commissioner is not there, or the board members, or the players union. They're not storming against that.
They've got to figure out how to meet the good of the entire whole versus their own upset about what took place. The New Orleans Saints can be as mad as they want during a playoff when there is past interference play about them not going to the Super Bowl because that's over. The Rams are over at that. I'm sitting in the Ram side fence but yet I have a Drew Brees fandom that goes on.
I'm upset about that, but I'm not storming the NFL or the Kent in Ohio, trying to break in and say, “They don't deserve to have the playoffs, therefore, so on and so forth.” This is a very important discussion about identity, loyalty, self-worth, community and connection. When we, as a nation, are not working in community building anymore, we're not building community at the local level. We’re not doing news at the local level. We're not supporting that. We're just supporting the bigger news places, which is problematic. When it becomes very top-heavy, it becomes a challenge to deal with one type of identity, labeling, judging, criticizing, and diagnosing another point of view at the expense of truth. It’s hard.
It has been very difficult for this issue. That's why I appreciate having the discussion about the sports teams because it helps us understand a little bit why some people are behaving the way they're behaving. When we see these four witnesses at the House Select Committee on January 6th, 2021, giving sworn testimony of their experiences, they were there, they were in it, they were injured defending the Capitol, protecting all of the members of the House and the Senate, all of Congress. They give this moving testimony. It was a perspective that we haven't heard directly from people who were there in quite this way before. We've seen video clips of all sorts of videos that were shot, but we hear this testimony and it’s like this is serious and riveting stuff. It’s the two Capitol police officers and two DC Metro police officers I think.
They're representing the other 140 that were injured and the other 600 of them that were in there holding the ground to protect the lives of both the Congress and the Senators inside the building. They were protecting the leadership.
They were protecting the very function of our government, the United of America, to affect the peaceful transition of power of a duly elected leader.
When we get to the loyalty of a sports team, the rule could be broken. Somebody doesn't necessarily die over it. If the Red Sox lose a bunch of games this season, it's not at that level of you and your loyalty to them. You're not going to feel good about the team. You're going to shake your head and want the leadership and the coaches to play better. You want the front office to hire better people. There can be that one mistake that loses them a critical game. Even though they've made all of these wonderful things, there was this one mistake.
All of a sudden, it's like, “We're going to fire that guy and get rid of the person that made a mistake.” Meanwhile, they are one of the best players. They go on to the other team and help them win a pennant. One of the things that we've got to work with as human beings is that, are we standing for the right identity when we get entrenched in a team of mindset versus a collective good mindset or what's the collective good for the nation is?
Instead of going like, “No, my team is so important. I am not interested in things like truth, integrity and fairness. I'm interested in the vote and the win because if I get my people in, I get what I believe is going to be better for the nation.” Not necessarily what's better for the nation, “I believe it is going to be better.” That is unsettling. Is it going to be better to do this thing?
Here we are. You and I are talking about truth and loyalty to the sports team mindset in both business and politics. It's unsettling but after watching a TV show that I don't like, I may consider not buying their product ever again and making sure that if my children are interested in buying that product because they've advertised on this show, I'm going to dissuade them. They're more loyal to me than the company that is paying for an opinion that's not mine. Do you see how tricky this is? Notice how much override I have to do. I have to build the case like, “Here's where my identity has drawn the line.”
That's the thing that happens all the time. People make their own decisions as to where they're going to draw the line. If they're supportive of what a television show or a television network is saying, and when there are sponsors on that show like, “Am I going to help that company and buy their product so they can continue to support this show?” People would make some decisions and this can affect business. It's very interesting to see what's happened in this regard because on the one hand in business, we see that Fox News is putting on “pause” their business relationship with the MyPillow company. Their ads are not running on Fox News anymore.
I'm not a regular Fox News watcher but I understand that these ads have been a staple on Fox News for some time. His company has gotten a lot of sales because of advertising on Fox News. The Business Fox News has drawn a line and said, “This guy, who's saying President Trump is going to be reinstated on August 13th, 2021, that's a bridge too far for us. We don't want to be viewed as being in alignment with that. We're not going to accept your advertising dollars. We're not going to run your commercials. We're going to pause for a while.”
“We can't be in a relationship with you because of that.” Notice they're picking the greater loyalty to the bigger advertisers than he is. We can keep taking money from the MyPillow guy, but it's at the expense of the longer-term play because he's starting to sound and becoming a leader for a voice that is outside our narrative we do not want to be associated with. Tom, have you ever noticed that some Red Sox fans are crazier than you are?
Sure.
That's a little bit of this thing. It's like, "Yeah, I see you crazy guy yelling or screaming, but could you back that off a little bit? You're affecting my identity and the hat that I'm wearing because you're wearing that hat that I'm wearing." This is a little bit of what's happening in both politics and businesses. You got to be careful what hat you're putting on. Now you're responsible for all the behaviors of the people wearing that hat. The Make-America-Great-Again hat being worn in certain public places and cities is not the strongest choice because now you're wearing your identity for something that has a great deal of conflict.
At the same time, there are 73 million people that voted for that hat. There are 80 million something that voted for the other hat. Wearing a Joe Biden-Kamala Harris hat in a city that voted against that has a bit of volatility to it because we are going to storm the Major League baseball offices. We're going to storm the thing because our way is one that we get to yell at you for your way. Meanwhile, the American hat is nowhere to be found. In the America piece, there's nothing to be built. It's a little weird to say, but if you try to wear the America hat over to other nations, you'll now start getting pushbacks.
You’ll get a different kind of pushback because people in other countries have very different opinions about Americans than most Americans realize. If more Americans traveled outside the country, which no one knows how to do these days right now, but I've traveled around the world quite a bit in business, not since the pandemic started, but certainly for decades before that, you’ll get a different perspective on America when you see how we're viewed by people in other countries. That's a bigger subject maybe for another day but you do get some perspective.
That’s correct because they and their team have a different hat. The identity, the loyalty, the self-worth, and the qualities of who I am because I am with this other group. You can judge and criticize whether it's North Korea or whatever country it is, thinking like, "They live there. What team do they have? That's the only team and the only leader they have." There is not a healthy discourse in that particular country because a healthy discourse goes, "I'm sorry, you're not on the team because we don't want a two-party identity here. We don't want open discussion. We don't want that. We want to have this other style of leadership."
We give an example of the sports team loyalty in business with Fox making this decision about the MyPillow company. Let's talk about loyalty in politics. We already mentioned before, we had four witnesses testifying in the House Select Committee regarding January 6th, 2021. After that testimony, you and I saw what the Fox News opinion hosts did to meet their need for loyalty to their team being the Republican Party.
The brand loyalty is, “We're fighters. We're going to fight for this. We are going to take a look at what took place and minimize that person's experience.” The feeling of shock and outrage is a series of needs buttons that you get to push as a communicator. We don't respect these people and things because they're Democrats. You and I both know if we're sitting at a Red Sox-Angels game, I can still respect the best player on the Angels’ team even though I'm rooting for them. I'm just hoping that player doesn't do good in this game.
It doesn't affect my team, but I still appreciate that person's talent. I may cheer against that person's talent to see if I can get him to rattle, and maybe he won't play as well. That's the fun or the entertainment of owning what my identity is and stepping into that. Imagine that at a larger level and the damage is done to brand America. You can see where this is not a good thing when I'm pulling my energy into that space. It’s very challenging.
Maybe I shouldn't be and I didn’t see all of them. You may have seen more than me, but I was shocked when I saw one of the Fox opinion hosts, Laura Ingraham, try to minimize the testimony of these Capitol police officers. She doesn't know their politics. I think one of them even said, “They're apolitical.” They're not defending only Democrats or Republicans. They're there to protect the Capitol and everyone there. It was probably not a wise idea for these Fox opinion hosts to attack these witnesses because of their political affiliation. What do they do? They belittle them. Laura Ingraham gave them an award and it was like a drama award saying, “What a good actor you are? Getting up there and crying in the witness chair,” or whatever. It's like, “Are you kidding me?”
There's footage of this guy in the crowd and getting hit with a stick. You could have some empathy to put yourself in their place if you were fighting for the nation as you said you're going to. You're in that place and your job is to protect both the Democrats and the Republicans that are in that building. Here's one thing that spurred this talk a little bit. One of the officers, to try to have a rational moment with the crowd says, “I voted for Joe Biden. Does my vote not count?”
Rationalizing and explaining to a person that feels angry doesn't work. It's like sitting next to the Angel fans that have engaged in the process of defeat the enemy at all costs. You look at that Angels fan and saying, “You guys stink,” or whatever. The guy had too much to drink or has bought into the narrative that his self-worth or his identity is so invested in the Angels that he throws a beer in your face, and then hits you over the head with whatever hard instrument he has available. You're going like, “Oh my gosh.” This is where that line gets crossed that the identity and the disconnect take place.
To me, it was shocking. I've wondered, “Fox News is doing that.” When we talk about team loyalty, it makes sense.
We can empathize with it. We can say, “Oh my gosh, this makes sense. This is the good reason why they don't want their viewers to go anywhere. They want their viewers to stay put.” What are their viewers used to? It’s us ranting against the other side? What are we going to do with this very difficult situation? Instead, if they were a news person who had some form of integrity towards America, another human being or the institution of journalism, then they would be this, but they are not those people.
Those are not that show. That show might as be as fictional as science fiction. It's allowed to be that way. It’s allowed to create an alternative reality. They get to beam into an event in a situation, and then they get to beam out and say, “We were visiting. There is no damage because we're allowed to do that. We're not held accountable.”
Laura Ingraham and Tucker Carlson are not under oath.
That's what the insurrection is about. It’s tying a person's message to such an extent that it motivates another person to do violence or harm to another person. All the people at the Donald Trump rally before they march to the things, there were things that were said that crossed the line in volatility, “We are demonstrating.” All of the different people could have completely played the line they needed to play. They could not have said that next level of, “We need to storm and take this thing back. We're going to walk down there and I'm going to be leading you there.” He didn't lead anybody there. All he did was words said, “I will lead you there.”
Also, “I'm going with you.” He said things that led people to believe it.
“I’m going with you.” “I better go. He's going to be at the front coming in, isn't he?” No, he's not.
A lot of the people we've heard quoted within the Capitol saying, "Donald Trump sent us." I wondered when I saw Laura Ingraham give this fake award for a drama to these Capitol police officers or one, in particular, I was like, "How far is Fox News going to go? How far are these hosts going to go because of their loyalty to this one guy and this party?”
It's a great question. How far would you go as a Red Sox fan? Notice that you have a line and a drop-off, “I am not going to kill another fan from another team.”
I'm not going to hurt anybody. In some ways, it would take an awful lot to move me off of my loyalty to my team but there is a line. I am not going to remain loyal at the expense of somebody else's personal safety or health, something like that. When you think about team loyalty, there is one other example of this team loyalty that is very appropriate and shows you how people in America are struggling with this. It comes out of a report out of St. Louis, Missouri, which is, “Midwestern, a very conservative part of the country, voted for Donald Trump.”
What this shows you is that not only team loyalty has been largely responsible for why a lot of people in America have not gotten the COVID-19 vaccine. A report came out of St. Louis that people are getting vaccines in private because they don't want to come out and admit to their friends, family and team that they're getting the vaccine, despite all of the talking points that are not supportive of the vaccine on their team identity. If you're going to the point where you're so loyal to your team, you don't want to admit you've gotten the vaccine, but your need for personal safety and health is so strong that you're going to do it in a covert way, I'm all for you getting the vaccine however you do it. That's a wow moment for me.
That's one of the challenges with a shame-based narrative. A language pattern that's inside a person's identity says, “I can't cross the greater group.” For example, if I am saying to myself, “I do not like Tucker Carlson. I do not like Sean Hannity. I do not like Laura Ingraham.” As a purchaser or as a choice, I can go on to the list of their advertisers and say, “See all these people? I'm writing them all a letter and letting them know that my loyalty to their company and their brand has been moved away. I am finding a new loyalty with a new company. I am leaving your brand forever as well as my children. I am letting them know because I have conviction in the money you're spending even though I can empathize with the 73 million customers that you can get over there by advertising with that group. I want to let you know that you lost the loyalty of one of your customers. The loyalty has changed.”
“I will not buy AT&T or Honda.” All of a sudden, I'm down with a list. “I'm not buying them because you've crossed the Brand America identity because you're supporting a group that is emphasizing division. I'm not going there with my products or services. I'm not purchasing that.” This is where the healthier dialogue exists. Is this good for America? Yes. The conversation about who has the best batting average or where do I put the bridge in this state or this state, that's a collective infrastructure challenge. Shall I build a new bridge in Texas or shall I build a new bridge in Iowa? As the United States of America, we do them both because both bridges need to be fixed. We don't want either of our fellow citizens to have something that could hurt them or will not serve us as a greater nation if it wasn't fixed.
Infrastructure is a great example because we see that moving through Congress in the most bipartisan fashion that we've seen anything moved through Congress in quite some time, where seventeen Republicans in the Senate have voted to advance a bipartisan infrastructure bill that's $1.2 billion big. There are things we, as Americans, all agree on that we need for the good of all of us. It's heartening to see that, at least at this point moving forward. I think that's a very positive thing.
These are things that we can discuss moving forward. This whole idea of truth and the loyalty in a sports team, in business and politics. We have to be careful what hat we're wearing, but also realize the collective hat of capitalism that runs a certain part of our economy, and the collective hat of cooperation that looks like funding police, firemen and infrastructure. Those are the dance between more of a social spend versus a capitalist or a growth spend. It’s very different, but we've got to get used to those two hats and find a way to fit those on our heads too.
They should do, Bill. I appreciate this discussion. It's been very helpful for me and hopefully, also for our readers.
Thanks, everybody. If you need more information about how to be empathetic in a most difficult situation, these are things that we work on. This is something that's a big part of my profession, so feel free to reach out.
It’s PurchasingTruth.com. Thanks, everybody. We'll be back next time.
Thanks.
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